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Links: Audio slide show interview with Tom Lie-Nielsen.
Anybody have any input on which planes to buy? I want two, a rough plane and a finish plane, maybe also a small scraper. I don't think I can afford two L-N, but one is possible. I am thinking of the record 9.5 and one of the L-N's. Any advice? (Mark Bolan) I think a grooved #3 (or equivalent) for roughing and a Record 9 1/2 would do you well. (Bob Maulucci) If I were to start over today I would buy 2 L-N 91/2's. One with a grooved sole and one flat. You can use the flat one for roughing, the grooved one for all but the last few thousands, and finish the last few swipes with the flat one again. The grooved one really saves on nicking the forms. Of course 2 L-N planes are expensive but you save in the long run. (Marty DeSapio) I just picked up a Stanley #3 plane and really like it, you can find nice used ones for under $50, that and maybe a older 9 1/2 or Stanley #18 knuckle plane (my favorite) and some Hock blades and you'll be set. (Tim Stoltz)
I was looking for a place to buy a Record 9 1/2 plane so did a search. Interestingly every web page that came up was linked to Amazon.com Have these guys got some kind of sole distributor agreement now for the US? (Larry Puckett) Got mine from Jeff Wagner. Nice folks and full of info. They’ve got Hock blades, too. (Jason Swan) Try Lee Valley Tools. They have them cheaper than anywhere else. (Don Anderson) If you are going to check out Lee Valley, check out Veritas Low Angle Block Plane P/N 05P22.01 Friend of mine has one and it is one sweet plane. (Don Schneider) I got mine at Woodcraft. (Bill Bixler)
What is the best way to restore the Japanned finish on an old plane? (Ray Wallace) See this site. (Larry Blan) That was a GREAT link you provided! Thank you! However, I would be hard pressed to ruin a hundred years of honest wear and tear on a fine old plane. Oh sure...I throw my planes on the floor and kick them around and simulate a lot a wear in a mere five minutes, but only after screwing up a strip. I like to think that 'wear' is also honest...more beer please? (Mike Shay) Well, I won't be stripping any of mine, especially the #3 that still has the decal on the tote. Not my place to judge, though, I just provided the info! :) (Larry Blan) I have to agree. I buy planes to use, not to look at, anyway. I wouldn't consider stripping a plane that still had as much as 50% of the original finish. If it isn't a showcase plane that was never used, then most collector's like to see honest wear. As they say on the Antiques RoadShow, it adds "provenance". (Paul Gruver)
I have been slowly finding tools but find it difficult to find others.. I am looking for a dial micrometer the 60 degree tip I believe is what it is called. I am building my own forms and I have found the metals and screws for it I have the files to square up everything. But I need to find the wood plane is really necessary to buy a Stanley or can use other ones. I am looking the plane blade jig so I can sharpen it correctly but none of the Lowes or other places know what I am talking about. so that is kind of a list I am sure that others will come as I look but If you have any Ideas where I can find these items it would be greatly appreciated. (Craig Dinsdale) You could probably pick up the planes on ebay. I got three of four of them for a song and a dance maybe 25 dollars, they work beautifully. The point can be gotten at MSC tool supply, six dollars a piece. The dial micrometer can be a Chinese one, they work great and are cheap to boot and accurate. When you call make sure you ask for the 60 degree point, they’ll get you the right one. (Ren Monllor) BTW here’s the sharpening jig web site. (Ren Monllor) Micrometers, calipers, and dial indicators are available from Harbor Freight and other tool discounters. They aren't Starrett quality or price, but they work. The least cost solution to planes is Ebay. You can still get Stanley and clones by Craftsman and others for $15 including shipping. They blade may be serviceable if it isn't too badly pitted. I have a hock blade in my finish plane and it is nice, but my roughing planes have original blades in them and they also work well. Sharpening jigs are also available on Ebay or from a woodworking supply store like Lee Valley. When looking for tools or supplies I start at eBay, check Harbor Freight, then specialty tool companies, but as I've said, I'm cheap. Get a book like "Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods" or Fundamentals Of Building A Bamboo Fly Rod" from Amazon or Ebay. They will have tool lists and suppliers, as well as how to build and use tools that aren't readily available. If you've never built a fishing rod, then a class is a good way to find out if you really want this as a hobby. If you have to wing it without the class, then ask the list if we think you need a particular tool before investing in it. There are a lot of ways to build a rod and some of them will save you big bucks. Start with step one in the book and build the tools as you go. that way if you decide this is a really dumb idea, you wont loose as much. While not a school, see if you can attend one of the rod maker gatherings. They generally have seminars on techniques and you'll meet other makers that will be a great help to you. (Larry Lohkamp) No, a Stanley is not required. If you want one good to go out of the box, no tuning required, buy a Veritas or Lie-Nielsen. They both come with A2 blades and run about 150. A Stanley is a cheap alternative -- just throw the blade away and buy a hock blade. Total savings will be about 80 bucks. It can be purchased at Lowes. The G12-920 is the equivalent of the old 9 1/2. The honing guide can be purchased from Lee Valley for around 50 bones. The mark II guide is nice and easy to use. The dial indicator and point/base set can be made or purchased. JD Wagner sells them at the best price, but it certainly aint free! Hope this helps and welcome aboard! (Don Peet) Right! And to add to Don's advice, Jeff Wagner and his wife, Cas,' are some of the most knowledgeable, straight-talking people you'll ever deal with. When I bought my dial indicator depth gauge from him, lo, these six years ago, I asked whether that's the same depth gauge he uses to build his rods, and the answer was an immediate 'Yes!' He was significantly less expensive than any other source (assuming you weren't prepared to make your own base), and his "standard" for the gauge is optically calibrated. He knows what it takes to make good rods and he doesn't have time for lotsa horsepucky. He's also pretty understanding where beginners are concerned, and I can recommend his rod-making class without hesitation. As I used to say, "It's the most fun an aspiring rodmaker can have with their clothes on." 'Course, I haven't been to Grayrock yet . . . .(Steve Yasgur) Now that's the best non beating around the bush answer to Craig's question yet. I will second that. I personally like the old tools (Stanley 9 1/2) but when you get right down to it and replace the blade, you really don't save that much money, and you have the time invested in tuning it up. I also believe that a class is more than worth the money. (Joe Arguello) I have to agree with Joe about the class. Nothing can beat the experience. Having the right tools and toys is great. But before you invest in them take a class. Better still take a couple of classes and attend a rod makers' gathering too. Lastly try to align yourself with someone who is local and been at it for a while. I live in South Florida and the nearest experienced rod maker lives 3-5 hours away, not close enough to call and drop in on. Take a class. (Phil Crangi) I have to take exception to the class route avenue unless the builder is only after one rod for himself. After the class you still have to build and collect all the tools for the next one. If this is going to be an ongoing activity and cost is an object, jumping in and flailing works. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to take a class from Harry and the great Nunley. I'd really like to see how they manage to get the finish on a rod in less than a week... but I'd much rather replace my wood forms with steel ones, or build a binder that I like, or get several more books, or a bale or two of bamboo. If I was still working, I could do both, but being retired I have to squeeze each penny until it bleeds... Of course if I was still working I wouldn't have any time for building rods. (Larry Lohkamp) I took a class from Stan Smartt in the Smoky Mountains when I first got interested in rodmaking. It was a very good experience. At the time I had a block plane. Stan let me borrow a planing form that he had and I bought a few other tools, but mostly I just used what he had on hand. It allowed me to learn not only the process, but also what I really needed and what I just wanted and how little you really need to build a bamboo fly rod. It's a great way to get started and to see if you really enjoy doing this. Many people buy all of the tools that they have been told that they need, invest a small fortune in tools, waste years getting ready and then find that they don't really enjoy rodmaking. A class is an excellent way to bypass all of this and just get started. Of course, this is just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it. (Hal Manas) I would have loved to take a class. Two problems: 1) no classes close to me here in Ca. 2) that $$$$ thing. I did a lot of research and finally said screw it and just dove in. I am very fortunate to have a great mentor (Mike St.Clair of St.Clair & Hynes) that I was in constant PM/ e-mail/ phone contact with, thru a local fly fishing forum. He gave me tons of advice and gave me the push I needed. To paraphrase Mike "Quit over thinking everything and get going". He also taught me to split bamboo with just a pocket knife and vise. Saves on Boo and is super easy to do. My advice: Be like Nike "JUST DO IT". If you wait until everything is just right, you'll never do it. Built my metal forms in a weekend with a file, drill press, tap and hours of hand filing. Started planing the next day. First rod was complete a couple of weeks later. Man, I love that first Bamboo build. (Pete Emmel) OK, so here is my opinion on this; 1) You do not need to take a class. The cost of the class will get you all your tools & then some. 2) You do not need to take the blade out of your Stanley Plane that came with it & put in a Hock blade. I have made all my rods without a Hock. 3) You do not need every tool to get started. You do not need a lathe right away. I built rods for years without one. I turned my grips using a drill clamped in a vice using jigs to hold the blank. You do not need a froe, heat gun (alcohol lamp works fine), no need for an expensive scraper plane (razor blades work fine), no need for a dip tube either & you can build your own oven like many others have. (Bret Reiter) I have to agree with Bret on this. Get a book that walks you through the process step by step, get some bamboo, and start in. Each step of the way, you can buy or make the tools you need for the next step. I started with Wayne's book and a kitchen knife. By the time I finished my first rod, I had purchased a Stanley plane, a heat gun, a drill press, a dial caliper, a dial indicator with 60 degree point. I had also made my own roughing and final planing forms, and a PVC dip tube. That first rod took me about 3 months of evenings and weekends (including making the forms) and I had less than $300 invested in tools. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that rod; it's still a joy to fish. (Robert Kope) I agree with Bret. A class is not necessary. When I started, I read everything about rodmaking I could find, including the archives, and made a lot of my own equipment. I love to learn new stuff and if the learning curve is not steep, it will not hold my interest. I think that the learning phase is one of the most important and enjoyable parts of any hobby/pastime. I don't like to pick people's brains and don't like people to pick my brain unless I can see that they have put a lot of thought and effort into getting started themselves and have done some homework. Maybe it's a hardass attitude, but that's my position in life. (Steve Weiss) Maybe not a class, but at least a beginner's worshop is a must. I got to set in on a beginner's workshop at the '98 SRG and Wayne answered questions I didn't know I had yet!! Watching and listening will helps me learn more, faster than reading a book. (David Dziadosz) Speaking of Wayne, I highly recommend his DVD set. You can find it on eBay exclusively. The content is excellent and the price is hard to beat. The nearest rodmakers gathering to Craig is the one coming up in Bridgeport, Ca. I would highly recommend making the trip. (Scott Bearden)
I wondering if anyone has used a L-N 103SP plane for finish work and can give me any feed back on it. (Jack Leary) I think that is just the non adjustable mouth version of the block plane?? It might be a little tougher to avoid tear out if you can't narrow up the mouth. (David Van Burgel) I have used one for about two years now. I think it is great for taking off the last few thousandths. Lie-Nielsen quality is of course unquestioned. The “special” designation indicates that it is somewhat adjustable. It has an area in front of the mouth milled out and L-N supplies inserts that mount with screws into the sole to fill the milled area. Mine came with three or four inserts only one of which had been filed (milled) back to allow a small throat. The others completely fill the throat and are designed to allow the user to file to throat dimension desired. The pre cut insert that came with mine works fine for my finish cuts, no lifts or tear outs experienced so far. My 103sp use is following a grooved L-N 9 1/2, so I am only taking maybe two thousandth with the 103. I have it adjusted to just shave the forms. (Larry Tucker)
Since all rodmakers are always looking for an excuse to buy another toy/tool I figured I’d pass this one on to you. I just got a new mini-plane/scraper from Micro-Mark. It is Item # 84850 a ½” wide mini-plane with the blade mounted at 90 degrees. Here is a photo and a link that may work. If not the url is www.micromark.com. I just got the one I ordered and gave it a try on some scrap strips and it took the enamel off very quickly leaving a nice flat surface. The small size makes it easy to hold and work with and at $12.95 you can’t beat the price. They also offer a similar 45-degree plane but I didn’t order one of those. I may just have to order another one to keep as a backup. 1/2 INCH 90 DEGREE MINI PLANE. (Larry Puckett) Harbor Freight offers a 3-piece micro plane set for $11.99. (Ron Delesky) Looks like the same thing but the Harbor Freight tool is a much better deal since you get all 3 for what Micro-Mark charges for just the 90-degree scraper-guess I'll order my second one from them. (Larry Puckett) The set comes in a leather pouch with individual sections. They work fine. I did have to touch up the blades on them, it just took a few minutes. I got mine on sale for 9.99. I still like my razor blades better. Seems I have more control on the scraping. (Tony Spezio) I have the HF set. The blades are junk. (Jim Healy) At the risk of sounding brainwashed, at $9.99 I would have thought that the blades would just about HAVE to be junk. Which is a shame, because they look like such a pretty little set of tools. (Peter Mckean) A good idea with this plane – I have one similar – is to give it a rodmaker’s groove by filing back the wood under the plane a bit. It works well, but the blade is not great. Needs sharpening too often. I intend to make a new blade for it sometime. (Steve Dugmore)
Just a bit off subject: Tonight I was adjusting my Stanley 9 ½. I took the plane blade out and set it on my planing form. When I went to lift up the blade I noticed it was magnetized -- sticking to the planing form. I thought maybe it was just that one, and so I tried the others. Each was magnetized...some more than others. Could planing cane somehow magnetize the plane blades? (Jim Sabella) My blades are not magnetized. I hate magnetised tools. Sounds like a good idea at times but when I was in a shop I took steps to demagnitize tools, especially the small ones. Do you per chance have a magnetic strip across the wall above your workbench where you attach tools? (Timothy Troester) Strange isn't it.You've made magnets using the stoking method but what's magnetic that the plane irons are being stoked against?Are they Hock irons? (Tony Young) Lie-Nielsen, Veritas A2 and vintage Stanley. All three magnetized. Lie-Nielsen most, then Veritas and Stanley least. I'm wondering if scraping metal on metal during final planing has caused this. I get real close with the two planes and use the Stanely iron as a scraper to take down the last .001 or so. No magnets nearby...that I am aware. Question: how do I de-magnetize the irons? (Jim Sabella) Harbor Freight sell a small combination magnetizer demagnetizer. I think I paid about 5.00 for mine. It is a little blur rectangle thing. It works real good. I don't have the number for it but I am sure you can find it on the Harbor Freight search page. (Tony Spezio) The higher the carbon content the more likely the iron is to magnetise. Why they have is plain weird.Stroking a high carbon (basically high carbon) piece of steel across a magnet will magnetize it. That's how you can make a magnet, it's called the stroke method but you need a magnetic field in the first place and if you wanted to do it it's generally something you have to do a of if it's to keep the field.Anyhow, however it happened what you need to do is misalign the magnetic dipoles that have become aligned somehow and believe it or not (this does sound hard to believe) you do the follow:Check the field by placing a pin near it and measure how close it has to come before it stops being attracted to the iron.Drop the iron on concrete in a magnetic EAST-WEST direction repeatedly to misalign the magnetic dipoles that have become aligned making the iron a magnet.Hopefully dropping the irons a few times will sort it but try the pin trick again and if it's still attracted again align the iron East-West and tap it repeatedly like 50-70 times or so with a hammer. Don't hit it hard, hold it in your hand and just keep tapping it.Try the pin again.If it's still a magnet contact the Smithsonian Institute and see if they want some new displays. :-) (Tony Young)
Have any of you seen anything like this? I am not sure how they would have been used. (Matt Fuller)
They look like dowel planes. (Wayne Cattanach) I believe H.I. Stickney made violins. I'm guessing these planes were used for that. (Jim Brandt) As a aside I looked at a Stanley plane at this site just now and they wanted a meer $415 to ship it to me, wonder how they sell anything. (Ron Petley) You don't live in Australia do you? Just joking. The cost of postage from some places to here makes you wonder if they're putting the thing on a 1st class seat. (Tony Young) I believe you're correct. Those appear to be planes for fitting tuning pegs in violins. (Robert Kope) I suspect the auctioneer is mistaken between split bamboo and cutting diameters on greenheart or circular cut glued sections. (Wayne Cattanach)
Is anyone else using the Lee Valley version of the 9.5? I picked up a couple recently and really enjoy using them. One thing I have noticed lately is that the sole of the plane may - potentially - be made from rather soft metal. I have a couple of these (standard angle) Ditto on the Veritas plane! Very little backlash and great adjustability! (Steve Yasgur) I also have the standard angle version and really like it for my final planing. No evidence of wear on the sole at all. Also, I can't speak highly enough of the new PM-V11 plane irons, they REALLY hold an edge! (Marv Loopstra) Agreed Marv. The blades are top notch. I find six strips on one blade is easy. Maybe more, but I haven't pushed it. (Harry Boyd) My plane sole looks exactly as you described. After I planed one strip, it was all gouged and scraped up. I thought it was my forms as well, but it was not. It hasn't affected the performance in any way, but I, too, like a clean-looking surface. My old Stanley 9 1/2 sole does not look at all like the veritas for what it's worth. (Don Anderson)
Hey there, the other day myself and another rod builder had a conversation about a slight difference in our 9 1/2's. Interesting, the rodmaker's plane that I have has a 4 cast into it, the low angle plane has a 1 cast into it. Maybe we need to ask Lie-Nielsen. (Henry Mitchell) I asked Tom Lie-Nielsen about the numbers on the frogs of his planes. There are just casting lot numbers and mean nothing. Once the casting is done they are then ground so the casting lot numbers no longer indicate anything. (Vic Edwards)
I'm sure someone will chime in with what is wrong my preference, but I have old Stanley 9-1/2 planes, an old Stanley 60-1/2 plane, a Record 9-1/2 plane, a new Veritas 9-1/2, and a Lie-Nielsen scraper plane. I have preferences for planes at different stages of planing. I use them all. If I had to pick one plane to do all my work, it would be my Record 9-1/2 with a light groove cut in it. But as it stands, that is the plane I use to do the final work before scraping. I have one Stanley set up for rough planing and the Veritas or the other Stanley for taking moderate cuts off of cane (yes, I do that by hand!!) I use the Record for finer cuts leaving the strips about 0.01 proud. Then I use the 60-1/2 taking very, very fine cuts finishing off with the Lie-Neilsen or a razor blade, depending on how the bamboo is behaving. Said all that, to say this. My favorite is my Record 9-1/2. (Rick Crenshaw) You might want to look at the Lee Valley standard angle block plane with PM-V11 blade. I have it and also have several LN planes. Both are excellent but I'd have to give a slight nod to the LV because of the new blade. Also, instead of a grooved plane, you can put a couple of strips of electrician's tape on the side of the plane sole and accomplish the same thing. Double sided tape between the plane sole and shims can work also. (Vic Edwards)
I am perusing the web in search of a Lie Nielsen grooved plane. Based on my inexperience, would the 60 1/2 low angle or 9 1/2 standard angle be a better choice? Also, should I replace the Lie Nielsen blade with a Hock blade? (John Smith) The 9 1/2 is better to get the higher bed angle for the blade. Also the Lie Nielsen blades are good as is. No need to buy hock just buy a couple extra blades from Lie Nielsen. I don't know if Hock makes blades that will work in the Lie Nielsen planes. The adjusting groove in the back is different for Lie Nielsens. (Gordon Koppin Why get a grooved plane? I have one that I made from a Stanley a machinist friend grooved the sole for me. I thought it would be great but rarely use it. Couple of things to think about. You can't cant the plane and the cane will lift sometimes also have to take the edges off the blade which leaves you only using the blade for that plane. One benefit is there is less blade to sharpen. All that said. I would go with the 9 1/2. Why not try a Stanley put your own groove in it? You'll have a lot less invested in case you don't like it. Also Lie Nielson blades are very good if you decide to go that route. No need to replace. (Rick Barbato) Not sure I know what you mean about taking the edges off the blade. What would cause the lift, dull iron? (John Smith) You have to take the edges of where there is no groove or they gouge into the form (Rick Barbato) If the iron is below the sole of the plane, then that defeats the purpose of the groove. (John Smith) I wasn’t going to jump in on this thread because I thought most would consider my opinion blasphemous but, truth be told, as good as LN planes are, it’s not the plane but, the person doing the planing. When I first started making rods, I thought it was imperative that I get the bestest, most expensive, shiniest of everything. Luckily for me, I am a disabled, single parent of two. The money just isn’t there for such nonsense. I still use the same 4 Stanley 9 ½ planes I got off eBay, 8 years ago. I still use the same blades that came with those planes, I did not buy Hocks or any other blades. I do use the Scary Sharp System to sharpen my blades and I can pretty much plane the cane for 1 complete rod (2 tips) without having to resharpen. I do not get glue lines. I hardly ever, ever get break out (if I do, it’s usually because I’m not paying attention) or chip out at the nodes or any place else. Now I’m not saying, don’t buy this or that, buy whatever you want. Just know that it’s not a necessity. I think Rick B gives some very sound advice. (Ren Monllor) Ren just gave very good advice.Two things to get right matter the most with block planes a lot more than the brand.One is get used to the idea of sharpening. The sharper the better. Don't treat it like taxation, learn to do it right and do it when it's needed. The other thing to understand is the relationship between the iron (blade) depth and the throat width. The deeper the cut the wider the throat width and visa versa. (Tony Young) "The other thing to understand is the relationship between the iron (blade) depth and the throat width. The deeper the cut the wider the throat width and visa versa." ABSOLUTELY! Bob Nunley taught that to me and it is VERY important. (Marv Loopstra) Thanks to everyone for their insight. I have to say I am on the fence now about purchasing the Lie Nielsen. Maybe I should explain my reasoning behind purchasing the plane and maybe this will clear up a few things for me. First and foremost, I am a firm believer that with better quality tools, a person can produce better results and I am making the assumption that a Lie Nielsen plane is better quality than a Stanley. That's not to say that the Stanley won't do the job; I've had a couple old stanley's in the past and they worked fine. I have read about the throat depth versus the amount of material being removed to prevent tear-out, I can sharpen and I can't see why a grooved plane would lift the cane anymore than any other plane, the same contact of cane to plane is being made at any given time. I am also assuming that because a grooved plane is being used, the cane is not flat with the forms when finished planing and the groove depth is accounted for in the form settings. Thanks again for your thoughts and opinions! (John Smith) I started out with Stanley planes, and they were, for the most part, usable. I had to true the throat, lap the bottom, and replace the blade with a Hock insert. The blade forever needed to be adjust for skew, and the Stanley mechanism for that was a bit hinckey. I bought a Lie-Nielsen scraper plane along the way, and really liked it. I talked Santa one year into getting me the Lie-Nielsen low angle block plane, and ever since, the Stanley's make wonderful door stops and paper weights. The Lie-Nielsen planes are just a real pleasure to use, they fit my hands really well, and their blades are superb. (Mark Wendt) On the other hand and again, not to say or imply anything negative about a Lie Nielson product, I started out with Stanley 9 1/2 block planes, I've never used any other blades other than those that came with the planes. Once I adjust and set the blade, I have no need to fidget with it any more. And as for the adjustment mechanism, I've never had a problem nor, do I find it difficult to work with. I guess it pretty much a matter of personal preference. (Ren Monllor) Though good tools do make things seem to come out better I think it has more to do with keeping those blades sharp & the skill of the rod maker. Look at the tools Vince Marinaro & Garrison used. A more expensive item will not make up for poor form or poor skill. (Bret Reiter) It may well be I had a faulty plane or two. I was able to use it, but once I got the Lie-Nielsen, I don't think I've ever move the Stanley off the shelf. Good quality tools are a pleasure to use, and the Lie-Nielsen fit my hand so much better than the Stanley ever did. The only thing I did after taking the Lie-Nielsen out of the box, and before use, was to sharpen the blade to my tastes. The Stanley's took a bunch of work to make them usable. The Stanley's are a good, economical plane for folks getting their feet wet in rod making. But they do need some work to make them usable for planing thin, tapered bamboo strips. The old Stanley's are much better than the new ones. (Mark Wendt) I have a not bad selection of planes from woodworking and found a older Stanley #3 (from a garage sale), which is about the width of my forms, works better for me than the block plane, could be I am more use to using a larger plane, might be a topic for a new discussion. I find the bigger plane easier is to tell when it is it is not perfectly horizontal to the forms, and it being longer it gives a flat strip easier, less dips. Sharpen well older Stanley steel works well, no need for a thicker blade as the Bamboo is so small relative to the blade. Yes, tuning the plane in all aspects is a must but that is part of the fun. (Ron Petley) I have had several different old planes including the 9 1/2. I traded off all my 9 1/2 planes because they did not fit my hand. I have a grooved sole plane but never use it because I cant my plane so that I get a cleaner cut on the bamboo, the groove keeps me from doing that. What I have been using the 15+ years I have been making rods is a Sears Plane I bought when I was doing wood shop in High School back in 1945. At the time I bought it I think I paid less than 10 dollars for it. It is my favorite plane, I sharpen the iron one time and plane all 18 strips with one sharpening. It has been my favorite plane for over 50 years. I am not putting any of the other planes down as I have not used them, If I had tried one of them I might change my mind but for now I am satisfied with what I am using. (Tony Spezio) Darn Tony, High School in 1945, and $10. I'm not sure but, $10 probably was the better part of a tradesman's day wage, if not more. I would have to check my Grandfathers pay records from the Canol Project. Two of the things that strike me about your comments that we need to remember, are a good tool will give us a lifetime of work, with some care, and 18 strips then resharpen. Some of use are not going to get 18 strips, because we still need to work on the learning.I believe the majority of our issues in rod building are from insufficiently sharp tooling. If the plane drags or if you have to press or push too hard, stop what you are doing and resharpen your iron. The first thing I would do whenever I visited Ralph Moon at his shop was take all his plane irons and re-hollow grind them, then sharpen them, and cover the edge with tape. Ralph and I have a problem with cutting things, like fingers. You put sharp plane irons and bamboo together you are going to need tape or bandaids sooner or later. How sharp is sharp, if you have to ask, keep working on it, the finer the steel and the edge, the better your strips will be. As for the size of the plane, years ago I took a '50's era wooden Ulmia Ott rip plane up to Ralph's that I had inherited from an old German cabinetmaker, I apprenticed under. That laminated steel iron, could be sharpened as well as anything I've ever seen. Anyway, I showed it to Ralph, who loved to tinker with new ideas and tools. I had to run up stairs to see Pat for a moment, when I came back down, Ralph had some new tape on his thumb and said "That's sharp. I told him I was thinking about using it to rough plane the strips. He commented, "It works.". Apparently he had tried it while I was up stairs. I would have to say when it comes to tools, it is not what they are, it is what the skilled craftsman can do with them. When I was apprenticing with that same cabinetmaker, I showed up the day after payday with a new tool, religiously, he would always ask "Do you know how to use it?". To which I would reply, "No, but I'm willing to learn, if you are willing to teach." it always put a grin on his face. Off to work we would go. I see the conversation has brought up Miller Falls, now that is a real sleeper. Back in the day, before I was even born, they were considered a very high quality tool, from what I have been told. I have a number of their chisels from the '80's that I use regularly and I know many guys who think they are every bit as good as Stanley's steel. I particularly like the Sheffield steel irons that I have in some of my Record and Stanley planes, they are very good and have served me well. But steel in the Ulmia or my old '20's.' 30's and '40's era Stanleys and Baileys really are delightful to use as well. The Hock blade is excellent for what we do, sharpening it is going to take a bit of knowledge and patients. Tom Morgan has actually figured it out quite well, rather than spending the time to learn to sharpen an iron, he removed that from the equation. You simply purchase a three or four sided insert tooling from an insert router bit, when it gets dull you simply rotate it to a new edge. I know some guys who are getting usable results from both sides, as well as each edge. This is a round about way to get back to Tony. But it sounds like at the end of the day, Tony decided this is the tool I have, this is the tool I like, and I am going to learn how to make it do what I need done. There is a lesson here. For those of you who have not seen Tony's work, you owe it to yourself. His life experiences, and willingness to share his knowledge are well worth a phone call or a visit, you will not be disappointed. His craftsmanship is among the finest. There is a tremendous knowledge base on the list, and Tony is definitely among the most experienced. (Greg Shockley)
The newer Stanley's suffer a whole lot of troubles. The blades are poor. The adjustment is a lot coarser. What to look for is a Stanley 9 1/2 that has a vertical thumb wheel at the rear. This type of blade iron adjuster takes the thread count and reduces it through a lever. This makes tiny adjustments a whole lot simpler. This Stanley has a decent blade. For a view of the better and higher quality Stanley 9 1/2, see below.
The newer Stanley has a Norris style of adjustment which is very course and the blades are crap. For a view of this one see below:
I use Record 9 1/2 planes as well. The older ones used a lever to lock down the cap iron. This type of cap iron lock was also on my early Stanley 9 1/2's. They looked like this:
Newer Record planes used a knob and they are move difficult to adjust the blade iron - at least for me. And for those that haven't tried the new Lee Valley replacement blades - they are sweet. Make sure you get the right slot size. (Don Anderson) I thought the same thing too but also thought it may have been due to the Aust market possibly being different so we get an inferior make under the same label but it seems not. I bought my Stanley 60-1/2 and Record 9-1/2 over 40 years ago and they were great. The original irons were as good as the Hock that I bought about 10 years back. A friend at work has decided to get into dingy building and went out and bought some Stanley planes and chisels etc. Have to say I was disappointed overall with the quality of everything he bought though they will still work OK. Stanley chisels were never all that great even back when I needed them but they were better than now. The 60-1/2 plane was not as well finished and as Don has remarked the adjustment is quite course now though good enough for tolerances that run plus or minus the nearest dingy. Actually it's not that bad but not as good as it used to be. Personally *for the money* I'd be on the lookout for old Stanleys or Records and if you can't find them go for new ones and buy a Hock iron but if you're happy to spend the money get the Lie Nielson or whatever. Personally I'd go with the 9-1/2 angle. (Tony Young) I also love the LN 9 1/2, and use it most of the time for finish planing. As others have suggested, the old Stanleys are very good, but everyone knows it, too, not just rodmakers. A real sleeper if you need to save some money is the Millers Falls #16, which does not seem to attract collectors, but is top of the line. They made a lot of cheap stuff, too, so stick with the #16. The British made Clifton smooth planes are really great if you want a 2 handed plane. (Tom Smithwick) A bit off track for rodmaking as such but if anybody ever considered making a plane it's not out of the bounds of possibility for rodmaker types and you learn a lot about the care and feeding of planes when you make one which is in fact why I did it in the first place.I used to own a book written by a guy called Kingshot who describes and shows how to make a bench plane and other things in a book called Making and Modifying Woodworking Tools. I gave the plane I made away as a gift years ago and haven't made another since but it was a lot fun to do. You end up with a very nice looking plane too because it's a hybrid plane sort of like the Norrises and as you dovetail the sole to the sides if you use brass sides and a steel sole you it's a neat look. The plane works perfectly. Once you sort a bench plane out you can try a block plane which is a little harder because of the scale of things when it comes to the iron depth adjustment but there are lots of ways of dealing with that from the simple to galacticly elaborate which is the way I'm sure rodmakers would do it. :-) Not an expert, but I have a lot of rods out there working hard. When I was buying planes I looked hard at Stanleys, and, with not any experience with block planes, but an eye attuned to quality surgical instruments decided they didn't have much to recommend them. I went then to Records, and bought two of them. I had a manufacturing engineer friend run some hardness tests on the blades, and we even tried having him harden a couple, but bought a heap of Hocks - the old black ones where you passed from youth into middle age while honing and polishing the bloody things; but they were great blades! So good, in fact, that when they wore down too far my friend used his EDM to cut the slots longer. I still use them, and they are good, but have an awkward attatchment system for the cap irons. One day I called in at a garage sale and bought a L-N scraper plane for $25 and was impressed with the quality, though I find the tool moderately useless in this work, frankly. I bought two L-N standard angle planes, one of them with a .003" groove and standard blades from Tom Lie Nielsen, and they are my go-to planes for precision tasks. I was given a little L-N #1 bench plane as a present, and while the bench plane format does not perform adequately in fine cane work, it is great for hucking stuff off. For what it's worth, I bought one of the new Battlestar Galactica models from Veritas because I liked the look of it. I hated it, kept it just long enough to sell it to a friend, Callum Ross, and felt guilty doing it, but he thinks it is great! All of which means that as Dino would say "Everybody loves somebody sometime" and what one person hates another will really like. (Peter McKean) Well, there you go... I have older model Stanley's and Record. (Rick Crenshaw) My 2 cents worth on grooved planes, I believe that it does not do well because I tend to angle the blade to make cuts using differentparts of the blade. It controls the blade and angles etc. instead of you. I can say also that as someone that teaches (55 classes asof Sept.) that the benefits are limited. Also, LN planes are greatbut the more important thing is knowing how and when to sharpen. When you do this enough you will develop an ability the hear when it needs to be sharpened. It will make a different noise much before it causes any problem actually cutting. All this comes fromhaving made rods for 20 years now. I was lucky enough to have been in Wayne Cattanach's first class he taught. Hope that everyone had a great Thanksgiving. (Doug Hall)
I tend to focus on Pre-1920 Stanley's which can be identified by not having Stanley cast into the toe of the plane. As far as blades, I use Hock A1 blades. I think the low angle is actually a 9 1/4. Here is a guide to tuning the plane. (Tim Welhelm) I will second the lie-nielson. Ready to go out of the box. The Stanley 9 1/4 is the same as the 9 1/2 without the adjustable throat. The 60 1/2 is the low angle. I think. (Larry Tucker) Having just tuned the saddle on my bench lathe by the sandpaper lapping method (http://www.toolsandmods.com/projects/marty-nissen-project-lathe) I can tell you that when lapping the sole do not use any fluids, just get one of those belt cleaners at sears or $5 and use it often. You will use a lot less paper, be a whole lot less messy and will get the job done a lot faster. (Ralph Tuttle) This may give you some ideas on further tuning a 9 1/2, but if you are sure you will persevere at rodmaking, I would suggest just buying the Lie Nielson or veritas and be done with it. (Tom Smithwick) Tom is right. Forget the Stanley. Save your money and get a LN with a rodmakers groove. I started with a Stanley and it took me a full two-day period of time to flatten the sole on a diamond stone. I love my LNs. (Alex Vardanis) I appreciate all the advice. I think I will go with the LN 9 1/2. I don't mind scraping and scrounging on the other stuff, but when all is said, it is nice to have somethings that are top shelf... (Michael Yonts) You won't regret it. The service from the folks at L-N is second to none. Not just saying that because I live in Maine :) You may want to ask them to put a 35 deg bevel on the blade. (David Van Burgel) Whenever I see comments about Lie‑Nielsen, I have to put in my two cents worth. Before I retired and got sick, I ordered a scraper plane from L-N. I asked them to put a 10 mil groove in the sole of the scraper. Unknown to me the depth most commonly asked for at that time was 5 mils instead of 10. Since I wanted the 10 mil I contacted them and they were very courteous and said they would send another. It arrived shortly but in performing the routing for the groove something slipped and the groove was 5 mils on one end and 10 on the other. This time when they shipped me the scraper it was perfect. Not only that I received an extra blade free of charge, (a $20 value at that time and a book on planes) and Lie Neilsen himself called me personally to apologize for the screw-up. Mistakes will happen but you know you are dealing with a good company when the president calls you personally to apologize. (Onis Cogburn)
I have ordered the L-N 9 1/2 (can't wait!), now I am looking for a roughing plane. I want to go to one of the numerous pawn shops and see what is available. What characteristics of a plane would I look for that would make a serviceable roughing plane? (Michael Yonts) If it were me, I would use the LN for both roughing and final planing and spend the $$ on a good sharpening system. WS 3000 is my choice here. (JW Healy) Ditto JW, just get an extra blade for the L-N., maybe sharpened at a less steep angle than the finishing plane. (Henry Mitchell) I just went and bought a Stanley knockoff @ Sears it works great for roughing. I now use a Bacon Beveler & hardly ever use the plane any more but it works fine. (Bret Reiter)
I need some ideas on the best way to carry 10-15 hand planes to classes when I teach. Any thing that everyone else does will be helpful. Plans/designs on something I could build even. I have a gator bag that I use now but looking for something different given I have more planes now. Any help will be appreciated. (Doug Hall) I wonder if a couple of these would work? (Harry Boyd) I keep my class planes in a Plano tool box. It is about 30" wide. I wrap each in a shop rag and make sure the blades are retracted. It does get kind of heavy. (Scott Grady) I have never seen that many planes in one place at one time but the thought just popped into my head that the silverware separators that keep all the forks, spoons, knives etc. together in a drawer stacked on top of each other in a small duffle bag might work. (JW Healy) When I travel with mine I stick each plane with the blade retracted inside an old sock. Each plane has its own sock. I stick these in a wooden fly tying chest that I have. (Bret Reiter) Maybe a hard-shelled brief case (double layer) or rectangular electric guitar / keyboard case? Remove the guts and replace with sturdy foam with cutouts for the planes. (Chris Moore) You can get cutout foam such as that used in Pelican cases. Take anything you want to use to actually tote the planes about in, get the foam, remove the blocks you need to fit the planes. Does a good job. This is just a random search.
I have ordered the L-N 9 1/2 (can't wait!), now I am looking for a roughing plane. I want to go to one of the numerous pawn shops and see what is available. What characteristics of a plane would I look for that would make a serviceable roughing plane? (Michael Yonts) If it were me, I would use the LN for both roughing and final planing and spend the $$ on a good sharpening system. WS 3000 is my choice here. (JW Healy) Ditto JW, just get an extra blade for the L-N., maybe sharpened at a less steep angle than the finishing plane. (Henry Mitchell) I just went and bought a Stanley knockoff @ Sears it works great for roughing. I now use a Bacon Beveler & hardly ever use the plane any more but it works fine. (Bret Reiter)
I purchased a Stanley low angle #60-1/2 block plane yesterday at an antique store. What angle should I sharpen the blade for using in planing bamboo. (Lew Boyko (8/25/2016)) I use low angle block planes, so the bedded angle is around 12-13 degrees. I sharpen my blades at. 45 degrees and micro bevel at 2-3 degrees past that. My cutting angle is then around 60 degrees. Works extremely well for me at this angle especially when planing harder heat-treated boo. I usually plane wet cane so my cuts at .008-.010 means fewer passes and quicker to final taper numbers. (Don Smith)
What review would you rod makers give for a New Stanley 12-138 Bailey No. 9-1/2 block plane (Sweet heart). I got the itch for a new plane, what say yee..... (Lew Boyko (10/29/2016)) With the CDN dollar conversion where it is presently, the Stanley is $136 USD. The Lee Valley top of the line is $195 CDN or $ 145 USD [USD = U S dollar]. See this for a decent plane that will be tuned and sharp outta the box. (Don Anderson) I have the sweetheart 9-1/2. It takes a deal of tuning for our use. I had to take off the brass adjuster lever and grind away with a dremel to get the throat to close enough. Much cheaper over here than the lie nielson or lee valley and that's the only reason I got one. Works well enough when tuned but if I could get either of those two without the punitive european import taxes I would. (Simon Reilly)
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